Cameraman: And umm...talk to her.

Interviewer: Hi...uhh should we do a test or are we good?

Cameraman: I’ve got him.

Some lady: Just have him introduce the name.

Interviewer: Would you mind introducing yourself?

Bill Goodman: I’m Bill Goodman.

Interviewer: And what did you do at the steel mill?

Goodman: I was an electrician. I started in 2000 at the blast furnace and in 2002 I was transferred to the steelmaking side of the BOF and in 2004 went to the caster on the steelmaking site

Interviewer: So when you first started could you describe a typical day that you had?

Goodman: As an electrician at the point, there was no typical day. It could be...it could be a hellacious, we could have a 2300 volt murder blow up, we could have just have some minor lighting issues and just other days you change light bulbs.

Interviewer: What kind of...did you see any accidents on the job?

Goodman: Yes.

Interviewer: What kind of accidents did you see?

Goodman: Well...do you mean where people were involved or just accidents in general?

Interviewer: Both!

Goodman: Well I saw the one windy day that the old five bridge fell, the five bridge crane. Was blown down I was there that day. I was there at least 3 times when we had very big murders blow up. Ummm...I was also performing an electrical job when I had a 2300 volt short and it blew me about 10 feet away! (chuckles)

Interviewer: What happened?

Goodman: We had to rack our a breaker and one of the staters were stuck. It’s similar to if your vacuum cleaner is running and you pull the cord...that little spark, well that’s 120 volts, think 2300 volts and that’s a really big spark.

Interviewer: How did you get the job first working at the steel mill?

Goodman: Well I was, I’ve always been. Well I was a police officer and I was injured and I got a mechanical job at McCormick they were short on electricians so I went back to school and got my electrical degree. While I was there I was recruited by Bethlehem steel. And went to work for Bethlehem steel.

Interviewer: Who recruited you?

Goodman: The HR.

Interviewer: oh.

Goodman: I went to TESST college, and they there were several companies that they dealt with and uh they gave them my name, and Bethlehem  steel contacted me, interviewed me, tested me, and hired me.

Interviewer: what were your coworkers like, what kind of people did you work with?

Goodman: (pause) They were...all of them are very hard working. on the electrical side, you had to have at least a degree to be hired by Bethlehem steel. so all of the electricians...how do I politely...all of the electricians were a little more educated. Some of the operators and mechanics, not so much but they were all great people. You know. I mean, it was…it was...it was, one of these jobs where I may not like you at all, but while we’re there we’ll have each others back.

Interviewer: So we’re there any tensions?

Goodman: Oh yeah. Particularly near the end we were working 100 hours a week. You know, you’re not seeing your family, you’re not seeing home you’re eating fast food and junk whatever, it just really starts to get to you.

Interviewer: How does it get to you?

Goodman: Well you get tired there were was one stretch where I worked 33 straight days and the minimum was 12 hours. and some were 16 and you I mean at least at my age I’m 53 now so I was probably 48, 49 and after about the 15th or 16th day your body really starts to break down so you double that into 30 days and you know. And it wasn’t just me it was all of us.

Interviewer: And did that happen often or was it just near the end?

Goodman: Near the end we started losing a lot of people.

Interviewer: What kind of...did you work on any like side projects or anything while you were at the steel mill anything to...oh gosh..what am I asking? ummm apart from your job as an electrician, what else did you do?

Goodman: Photographer.

Interviewer: Uhh...what did you do as a photographer? What did you take pictures of?

Goodman: I took pictures of just about everything but how that got started was I was on the steelmaking safety team and we were reviewing our budget and we had these kind of goofy cartoon safety posters. And I could not believe the money...we were spending like $35 on like an 11x14 cartoon poster. So I asked for permission to bring in a small digital camera and if I could take pictures and convert them into safety posters and print them on the plotter. And I was given permission with very tight reigns and the first several posters that we made were stolen almost immediately cause nobody had pictures from down there and they would take them home “look honey this is me at work.”

Interviewer: So why were you given tight reigns why were there restrictions?

Goodman: Because cameras were not allowed in any circumstances inside the mill. Only authorized...you could be terminated immediately if you were caught with a camera.

Interviewer: Did a lot of people kind of try to sneak them in?

Goodman: Umm, I don’t know if they did. If they did, they didn’t brag about it. I know some of my pictures from the steel side, I mean the iron side, blast furnace and the orerere field, were umm...taken illegally. Hahahaha.

Interviewer: And you didn’t get caught?

Goodman: No. Electricians...it was probably the most easiest...most easiest, probably the most easiest job to steal away to take pictures. Because we had total access everywhere. And uhh, I could say that you know if i was up high, I was trying to get a landscape photograph, I could say I was changing a light bulb. Umm. There were censors there were so many places I could go that most people couldn’t go. And typically I was alone so no one knew that I was taking the picture.

Interviewer: Do you have interesting stories about when you kind of snuck away and took pictures?

Goodman: I...yeah I have one….uh...I realized at one point and I actually was, I had a small fuji fine pix and it fit in my pocket. and um, I  guess this was 2003 maybe? and I actually had to change a light bulb and I was on 3.11 (???) and I realized that the stacker reclaimer and the oil field was right in light with the key bridge and the sun was gonna go right behind it. So I climbed up on top of #10 junction house, an old rickety 10 roof, and I sat there until everything was perfect and I snapped about 5 pictures and just as I took the last picture, somebody called me on the radio and said, “Is that you on the roof up there?” and ooohhhh….so i scampered to get down really quick, “no it wasn’t me!” hahahaha

Interviewer: How did you get started taking pictures?

Goodman: Ummm…probably when my kids were young. I would buy cameras and take pictures and when they got involved in sports the quality of camera and lenses continued to get better particular with the sports and ummm...once I was allowed to bring my equipment to the point, I was able to take all wide array of photographers and make things happen, you know what I mean? And umm, you know with the different lenses and a good camera you can focus on different things.

CLOCK: DING DONG DING DING

Cameraman: It’s a beautiful photo…

Goodman: Which one?

Cameraman: The one you were talking about.

Goodman: Oh yeah with the sun?

Cameraman: Yeah.

Goodman: I actually won a photo contest with that one.

Interviewer: Umm. Let’s see...so you were talking before about tensions between operations, mechanics, and electricians…

Goodman: Yes.

Interviewer: ...do you have...is there any story that stick out your mind, something like that any conflicts or anything?

Goodman: There were some ...they were a couple, physical minor physical shoving ummm, a lot of times in each others face you know. I mean steelworkers are rough people. you know and...if you say to basically any of them, “excuse me, you hurting my feelings…” you’re probably going to get beat up. You know? hahahaha

Interviewer: Ummm….. How has working at the steel mill effected your life?

Goodman: It’s funny because...I really enjoy being a police officer. But Bethlehem steel became a part of me. Umm...I don’t know why. I can’t explain it but ummm...I’m glad for my time in the police department, I thank GOD for my time at Bethlehem  steel there’s absolutely no place on earth where you see what you see, where you, umm, ummm, are apart of umm...this massive, I mean, I can’t even describe the energy, the heat, the intensity and it’s all of the time I mean, when you’re working 10 feet from 3000 degree liquid steel, you know you have to be on top of your game and it becomes a part of you. that’s why so many people are so upset about the demolition.
Interviewer: And how has the steel mill become a part of you?

Goodman: Well my father worked there. In fact, my father passed away in 1992 and he was in the plate mills in the 3.9 mill crashed, he was called in early, came home, I think 6 in the morning? Asked my mother to wake up him up at 10 and when she went to wake him up, he had died. and uh, I mean it’s...it’s...you know, his brothers worked down there, umm, it’s just part of the family. When you’re here, everybody in your family has worked at Bethlehem steel. Even if it was a summer job but everybody in my family and probably everybody’s family.

Interviewer: Did you know a lot of people who families worked at the steel mill?

Goodman: Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. Umm. Up to this day, I’ll post pictures of Facebook. and people say, “My mother worked there and my grandmother worked there and my grandfather and his brothers worked,’ you know...it’s just incredible.

Interviewer: do you get in contact, do you get information from people you haven’t seen in a long time or people that you haven’t, that you’ve worked with families that you’ve worked with who’ve had children and they contact you?

Goodman: yes, uhhh, i’ve gotten some phone calls, some emails, and some Facebook hits where people find out about me and say, “do you know if you have any photographs of my father?” well i have 9,000 pictures, i may. i don’t know. if i knew your father personally, i could say yes or no. you know? and that has happened. umm, in fact in happened to me when i was allowed access to the old photographs in the basement before the historical society got them. as i was scanning i went through one when my grandfather was a doctor at the dispensory. and there was my grandfather! i was like, “GASP! Pop-pop!”

Interviewer:What kind of photos do they have down there?

Goodman: they had photographers all the way, i think the earliest was 1893? i believe 1893 was the earliest photograph and there are photographs documenting just about every phase of the mill being built. you know? from the very first bessemer furnaces to uhh, i mean i have pictures of the new cold mill which was completed in 2001. You know? so it’s...it’s a wide documentation of history.

Interviewer: What did you...what do you know about the mill town?

Goodman: The mill town, well my aunt and uncle lived on 9th and F, the 900 block of F street, and I remember my cousin and, several cousins, and I walking to get an ice cream, If i remember one time, going to the lysion theater and the bowling alley was underneath. That was a treat, always watching the movie and CRRRRRRRR (sound effect) CRRRRRR. Haha. But you know it was what it was. it was a quaint little town. It had some many things that the big city didn’t have because it was funded by Bethlehem steel.

Interviewer: So what do you think the biggest contribution the steel mill made to the community?

Goodman: Well I can tell you that the steel mill built Baltimore County and Baltimore City. I mean there’s, I don’t care if you live in Sparks, Catonsville, Arbutus, there’s someone who worked at the point, all three Baltimore cities, there’s somebody who worked at the point.

Interviewer: So how do you feel about the point blow thing?

Goodman: Oh it breaks my heart. You know, on several levels. One, because of my family’s history there, because of my history there, and probably with me it’s a little bit deeper because I was allowed to take photos. you know? I... it wasn’t until maybe 2008-2009, that i realized that I wasn’t just taking pictures, you know, I was actually documenting history because it started to become more and more apparent that we weren't’ going to be there.

Interviewer:  When you were taking these photos did you kind of have free range to go anywhere or…

Goodman: ...Within steele making yes, if i went to another division all i had to do was contact that division safety officer and one if not the superintendent.Somebody higher up had to know that I was coming with a camera, but every division manager down there knew  that I had free license, I just had to let them know I was going to be in their mill and I had to let their safety officer know because all thought I worked over time at every mill there, I did not know every dangerous area. So in what we would call foreign mills, someone from the safety team would go with me a say “You shouldn’t go here.” You know? “If you want this picture, take it from here.” So yes, I was given total access.

Some lady: Darcey can I interrupt...You just answer the question and look at Darcy.But um  I just want you to go back and mention in 2008 and 2009, you know you realized you were not only taking photographs, you were documenting history cause you started seeing signs..

Goodman: ...yes…

Some lady: … that it was in decline, would you mind describing what some of those signs were.

Goodman: ...yes, some of the way that I knew it was coming to an end, we were having trouble getting raw material, we were having trouble getting parts that we ordered. um, sometimes a tool would break and they would tell us, I can't buy a new tool but if you go and buy it and bring us the receipt , we’ll reimburse you from petty cash. I mean these are signs that, um you know when you have electric parts and they are saying hey on your down time can you desautheter a campaisture brom another bourge and put it on this bourge so we can get running. You know its, you know when you have a steel mill that pumping hundreds of tons of steel and you can’t buy parts, somethings wrong.

Lady:  And did this happen frequently…

   Goodman: ….oh yea, yea…

Lady: I guess the last question that i have, um, what do you think is the legacy of the steel mill?

Goodman: I think the legacy of the steel mill is its contribution to several war efforts, patrisulary World War II. Um, our ship ward pumped out, I believe..I believe, as many or more..more ships than any other  shipyard  in the us. I think San Francisco was next and one up in long island was third. But um , I uh, aslo you look around at this area, a lot of people my age moved a way because there parents sent them to college and they got jobs out of state. My daughter being one, my daughter went to Syracuse University And I dont know how she’d been able to if i hadn't worked at the Point. I mean the money was good the retirement was good. and you know, she has moved on, she's in Texas, you know. So I think Bethel Steel has not only a footprint here in Baltimore, I think it a very large foot print across the country.

Strange lady: Yea I’ll just ask maybe one more or two..

Goodman:  ...Ok…

Strange Lady: Thank you...great job, didn't she do a great job?

Goodman:  ..yes, very good.

Strange Lady: Uh, I think its really interesting that you had the revelation that you're not just taking photographs so I’m going to go back to that..

Goodman: ..ok…

Strange Lady: ...But in the present, so you have all these photographs on your computer and run all these facebook sites, why are you doing it and how does it make you feel?

Goodman: I'm doing it because I don't want the mill to be forgotten, I'm doing it because.. I was fortunate enough to be able take pictures but there were a lot of men and women  who share the same passion. Who it was every bit a part of their lives and body as mine. And I’ll put up a few picture on facebook and I’ll get hundreds of comments on “ Wow, I didn’t think I’ll ever see that again” or they'll say “Hey, thats  my buddy Jim, I remember that day.” You know and it gives you a really good feeling to  know even for a second you made somebody smile.

Strange Lady: Would you mind saying for the recording what it is you do on facebook and what you have your computer.

Goodman: he ha he ha, On my computer I have, um, just a hair over 9,000 photographs from Bethlehem Steel, Silver stall, RG (smiles) and um just to make sure nothing happens they are backed up on to 3 different hard drives, all of them and uh (clears throat) I had no problem sharing them. you know um, I want the pictures out there, a lot of people say you should sell them, you should make people pay if they...I'm not going to do that, you know? I made my money down there. My money is not the legacy, my money was the work I put there, the sweat. and now its time to share it.

Strange Lady: Any other questions? Yea, Bonnie..

Umm,...

yea you..

Bonnie: So I was just wondering um, I've heard a lot of steel workers spend time outside of the mill, did you have anything, like was all your work done at the mill or did you do extra activities maybe on the outside.

Goodman: Yea there was groups, we would get to together. Actually there wa a couple mechanics and technicians, we would do side work, you know, um Im one of those jack of all trades and I for years had done breaking concrete, electrical plumbing , HBEC and I’d say hey or somebody would say “ Hey I’m doing a, I'm tearing my sidewalk up, can you come help?” And there would be 4 or 5 of us, you know, they’d come help pull it up  and Id say we need to do this and you know, I’d trial it,  finish it, screen it. But uh, a lot of electric work, and sometimes one of the guys would just have a bonfire up at his house in Jobpit? town and there were the 50 of us.You know and uh of course we’d all talk about how much we saved the mill. (chuckles)“That place would have gone down if it wasn't for me” (smiles) Its kinda like war stories, only at a steel mill.( chuckles)

Bonnie: Uh Thank you, uh , you bring up a question to my mind, did you have friends at the mill? Could describe..were they just co-workers, that kind of..

Goodman: Um some were just co-workers, kind of kind of what I touched on earlier, there were some who if I saw them at the grocery store some wouldn’t even  give them a nod but while you were down there you had each others back and you knew it. And there were others um that to this day they’re like your brother, um I just had one call me 2 nights ago. He’s working a chemical company and he had an ocia question, so  i directed him where he could look to find his, get his question answered and uh, Jay who had the bonfire, he, him and I are like brothers, I mean never knew him at all before I started and we couldn't be closer if we tried.

yea so anything else you'd like to add or want people to know about the mill. Now that its not there.

Goodman: You know one thing thats funny and I still hear people talk about today, people talk about sleep time and ask time and... ( Grandfather clock)

(everyone laughing) (Murmurs)

Lady: ...I knew it, I knew it. I saw it 5 minutes before

another lady: ..I know me too, I looked up really quickly..

Goodman: I’ll thank my mother for that, that was a wedding gift (Laughs)

… (laughing and murmurs)

Lady:Whenever you want..( Grandfather clock)

Goodman: We’ve got 5 chimes…

Lady: ….Its nicer than the uh, refrigerator fan

another lady: ...oh that’s right we interviewed someone at castas, yea so…

Lady: ….right at the bar and...

Goodman: ...Nice… (Grandfather clock still going off.)

Lady: ok…

Goodman: Ha ha, so it seems to almost be a running joke like, there was a lot of slow times and for some  operators there were slow times when everything was running fine and their job was to monitor. and That’s what you do, you sit down and monitor. But if people think its easy just sit down there and watch liquid  steel go by and watching some gages and some digital readings, its not easy. You know but these guys knew if they dozed off or their minds drifted and something went south, they're probably gonna kill half of their co-workers. You know and and, usually is someone wasn't feeling well or they were tired they’d go to a co worker and say can we switch. You know so, I know its a running joke but people can't believe the hard work that goes into...I mean everything was bourge down there, everything  was big, everything was heavy and the area was usually hot. (chuckles)

Lady:...How do you feel?

Man: ...I guess is great..

Lady: ...everyone?...

Bonnie: ...I have one more question,Im so sorry,  I just want to know um..because we’re kinda looking into the future a little bit and um, If you had your choice like what...and you are in the community, so that, I think this is even more valid, what would you want to see go? We know its not going to be Steel, what would you want to see there?

Goodman: Id, I don't want to see them turn it to another business park, uh I would not like to see, theyre talking about a marine terminal, that i can deal with because there will be people working. Um, you know they shut down general motors down the street and they put in a business park.  We don’t need another business park like you know, and I just, you know 70 something, since they started taking recored, 70 something people died down there, you know, at least put people to work. You know, make, and the poor people will work at the port. you know, I don't have a problem with the port. It would have to be several manufacturing places to take it  (chuckles) I mean its massive, it really is its a massive place. but um i just want to see people working , maybe some of the younger people, by the time they get everything leveled and cleared and something new in there. Some of the younger people may have an opportunity for good jobs again. um and from _____ astray?, Ive talked to a lot of them, and (clears throat), they, they are getting, um TRU and traning money and they’re going to some of these um, you know Fordis and Phoenix  and they’re just , when they’re finishing up, if they finish  because, you know its so hard and they have to work part time and they have to go to school full time. And if they make it through it seems like the companies that are hiring them are don't want fordis if they have the choice and they do, don't want Fordis and Phoenix, They want University of Maryland, UMBC, um Delaware. You know, they want the bigger colleges if they’re going to …and you know these people  lost decent job and a lot of them are hurting and if they put a port where they can earn decent money, the younger people will jump, put them back to work.

Lady: Again Bonnie, you have caused me to think of something else, sorry its getting to that time of day...You’ve lived here, so you’ve seen Dundalk change, can you talk about that?

Goodman:Yes...Yea um as Western Electric closed , General Motors closed, um Bethem Steel when the shipyard closed , uh i think were talking around seven or eight thousand jobs. The Plate mill went down following by the, well the  Blooming Mills then the plate mill, thats probably another seven or eight thousand jobs, um people started moving where the jobs were and other people started moving and they weren’t born necessarily in this area and um they didn’t have the same sense of pride, I can tell you um as early as 15 years ago, you didn’t see trash on the streets, you didn’t see people fighting, you didn’t see drugs being sold. But  as the hard working back bone of the community started moving away for jobs. Thats what moved in and its sad, its really sad.

Lady: You still have that pride though for Dundalk?

Goodman: ...Oh absolutely..

Lady: Why?

Goodman: I was born and raised here, I worked hard, I've earned  my way and it doesn’t matter where I live but because I was here and because I worked at Bethel Steel,  i just have uh, Im very proud of it, Very proud. I'm not ashamed at all to go anywhere and say I’m from Dundalk and sometimes I get jokes and I give it back to them.

Lady: Well if you have anything else to say

Goodman: Nope, I don't think so..

Lady: Alright, thank you guys!

(Claps)